Matterhorn

The Eiger

Central Wisconsin

The Dufourspitze

Zermatt

Täsch

Adelboden

Swiss Pass

Daniel  

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Expert Guide to Your Life in Switzerland. This is Daniel from Rigby in Zurich. And we have something a little bit different again for you this time, which is another conversation between Diccon and Beth.

Beth is the President of the Swiss Centre of North America, and Diccon met with her in New Glarus as part of his recent tour of the US. In this conversation, Beth tells us a little bit about her experience of travelling in Switzerland as a Swiss citizen, but one who didn't grow up here.

If you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe. And if you work in IT, and you would like to find a role here in Switzerland, or if you're looking to hire, please let us know we'd be happy to help. The best way to do that is by sending us an email to contact@rigby.ch and we'll be in touch. So, enjoy the episode.

Diccon  

Hello, again, I'm Diccon Bewes and this is your Expert Guide to Your Life in Switzerland podcast. This month, I'm in New Glarus with the President of the Swiss Centre of North American, Beth Zurbuchen.

Diccon  

Grüezi! And we're going to have a little talk about the different expectations, or the travelers have if it's your first time in Switzerland, like it was for Beth quite recently, or whether you're a seasoned Swiss traveler like me, because I live there. And I think one of the biggest questions I get asked, either by email or when I'm doing guided tours, is how much can I see in Switzerland? Because Americans have this, rightly have this idea that it's very small, twice the size of New Jersey, and so pack a lot in. Is that the right thing to do?

Beth  

Grüezi!

Beth  

I don't believe so Diccon. You want to be able to enjoy what you're seeing. You want to be able to learn about what you're seeing. And if you are trying to have an eight-day vacation in Switzerland, and you have, I don't know, 12 stops, you want to make, 15 stops, all you are doing is travelling, and you're not enjoying, you're not experiencing. I really think and you said this to me slow down, experience it because then it becomes real. And you're just not living by photographs. You remember, you have true memories. If you travel, go fewer places, and enjoy those places more.

Diccon  

But really the temptation, this may be your only time in Switzerland, so you're, the temptation really is there and I can understand it. You want to go to cities like Bern and Lucerne, you want to see the Matterhorn and the Eiger, you want to take the great train ride, you want to go through the Alps, you want to take a paddle steamer, it's really hard to know. And it's hard for me because I've been all those places and done all those things. So it's really hard to know, what should I prioritise? Or what would you recommend to people? What are your favourite places that you've seen?

Beth  

It's hard for me to tell others how to prioritise which I know you experience too. But let's say someone is talking to me about Switzerland and they have Swiss roots.

Diccon  

Okay.

Beth  

It always begins with I want to go to the place where my grandparents, my great grandparents came from my family came from.

Diccon  

Their Heimat.

Beth  

Their Heimat, their place of origin. And that, to me, should be probably their first stop.

Diccon  

And it's probably going to be some little village in the middle of nowhere because that's why people emigrated 150 years ago, to escape the poverty of rural Switzerland. So it's less likely to be a city like Zurich or Bern.

Beth  

Absolutely. And Americans have to realise when they say Bern, I always go 'city or canton?'

Diccon  

Exactly.

Beth  

And they go 'what's a canton?' It's like a state, but you know, they're from Bern. And so it's like, okay, where, and sometimes here at the Swiss Centre, we help people identify where that might be, if they don't know, I can go to the surname book, and I could give them an idea of where that could be. And yes, it'll probably be a little place if you're from, you know, the old Glarus, as we say, here in New Glarus. It could have it could be Luchsingen, it could be Elm, it could be any of the little up-valley, you know, communities, because that's where the people who settled here came from. And I think because that's first on the list of what, when they said, 'I really want to find my Heimat', then go there first. And if it's a little village, do your research because there may not be a hotel. You're probably going to have to take a bus there and Americans like cars. And you know, if you use the train system, the rail pass and from there spoke out, because if you are in the German-speaking part, which most of us here in Central Wisconsin are from then you probably won't be travelling to Ticino or down to Geneva. Probably Not.

Diccon  

Not on your first trip anyway, exactly, you might get a taste for it and go back for more. And I think the other thing that is really important to remember if you're going to places like that, to look for your ancestors - everything in Switzerland is shut on a Sunday. And on a public holiday, and the public holidays are different from American public holidays, because in Switzerland, generally they are still religious holidays. So, we had Ascension Day in May and Pentecost comes shortly after that. Whereas in America, you have Memorial Day in May. And so, I think it's easy for countries, people coming from countries like Britain or America, where public holidays don't actually make that much difference, say to retail opening hours or to hospitality, to remember that Sundays and public holidays are quite strictly observed, especially in rural areas. So, don't expect anything to be open, least of all parish halls or record offices, but even also shops and restaurants.

Beth  

And to be very specific, grocery stores.

Diccon  

Yep.

Beth  

Somewhere you can eat, the restaurants will be closed. You can't even walk into a grocery store and buy something, unless you're at the train station, right?

Diccon  

Yeah. And actually, once you live there and get used to it, and I had to get used to it, because I came from London, and I was used to 24-hour society. And it was frustrating. And it is one of the biggest complaints of a lot of expats, but also visitors to Switzerland is 'why are the opening hours stuck in 1982?' But once you get used to it, you actually appreciate that different work-life balance, whether you live there, or whether you're visiting just you slow down and you take stock of what's around you rather than dashing from place to place. Because place to place generally, they're closed on a Sunday. So, what's the favourite? If you think of the big sites that people go and see, I know I took you to see the Matterhorn and you weren't that keen to go. Basically, you thought it was going to be too touristy. And it's just a mountain. So, is it worth going?

Beth  

Yes. I have my prejudices against touristy spots. I want to go places that most tourists don't go. Because, sure, that mountain has been taken photographs of many times. So, I've seen it. But you looked at your weather app, and you said that the the weather is going to be perfect. So we go on the train. It's a beautiful ride. And it's the bluest sky. And do we turn a corner or something, but all of a sudden, it's there. And it's grand. And it's, photographs can't do anything justice. So, yes it was, and we stayed and we had lunch and we walked. And you pointed out that, as we say glacier, and that..

Diccon  

Glacier to the rest of the world!

Beth  

Yes. A glacier! And that, okay, what was we're looking at the Matterhorn right to my left was a mountain top that was taller.

Diccon  

It was the highest point in Switzerland, Dufourspitze, which is taller than the Matterhorn. Obviously, it's the highest point in Switzerland, but it's not as impressive when you're at that vantage point, because it just looks like a little nobule.

Beth  

A mound.

Diccon  

Yes, a mound. And I do remember is that it was I think possibly the first time you had been up over 3000 metres, except in a plane. And you found the air quite thin.

Beth  

You mean? Yeah, yes. And so slow down. We don't have to run up the steps.

Diccon  

And that's part of the experience because in Switzerland it is really easy, thanks to the amazing infrastructure that was built 100, 150 years ago for lazy British tourists to get around. You can go up mountains relatively easy in trains or cable-cars and enjoy this amazing panorama. You don't have to be a mountain goat to do it. A lot of Swiss people do hike up. But a lot of tourists don't. And you can still enjoy the scenery. Yes, there were lots of people. It wasn't 'not busy', but it wasn't horrendous.

Beth  

It was absolutely delightful. I think because we were there early October. It wasn't as crowded as it would be, say, August perhaps.

Diccon  

Yes. And I know we both are fans of travelling in shoulder season, offseason and in Switzerland of course there are two high seasons, so this is another thing you have to remember if you're planning your trip, especially if you're going to the mountains - high season is the peak summer which is great for hiking. It's also school holidays across most of Europe. So, July and August can be busy, they can be hot is the other thing people don't expect.

Beth  

You have no air conditioning.

Diccon  

Air conditioning is coming slowly. It's limited. So, the trains are air conditioned. and newer trams and buses, but generally a lot of hotels and shops aren't. And so when it's 30 degrees plus, and I mean 30 Celsius, not 30 Fahrenheit. So, when it's 90 plus outside, it can get quite hot, we have no ocean, we have no sea to cool us down. And so, it can get hot and stay hot. So, unless you are tied to summer holidays, I would try to avoid July and August, everything is busier. And the weather can be less comfortable if you're not used to the heat. And then the converse is that winter is ski season in the mountains. So, everything gets more expensive and gets booked up. Even post-pandemic it is recovering already. So typically, from Christmas, right through to the end of February, is when it's really busy. The cities, it's less of an issue. And so, if you are thinking of going in the winter, of course the mountains are beautiful, yes, winter wonderland. And a lot of the mountain train still run all year round. But if you're looking for hotels, and you're not going skiing, then you might find some issues. So, I would always suggest, especially if it's your first time in Switzerland go in May, June or September, October.

Beth  

And for the Americans who haven't travelled out of this country often - don't overpack. My first trip to Switzerland.

Diccon  

Oh my god, you brought a dead body back. I mean, it was huge!

Beth  

It was, I don't know, I probably had an outfit for every day or shoes for every day I don't know. But I had the big, giant American suitcase, which once people gave me things to bring back to the Swiss Centre, books, etc. I couldn't lift my suitcase. And you know what, you don't need it. You can wear your clothes more than once. But I really have been stressing that to people I've talked to who travel, try to get by with a small to medium bag. Now I want to try to just pack in a backpack.

Diccon  

Failed. You failed dismally.

Beth  

Even worse than that - it's impossible. So, I accept it. But I'm trying to cut back, and you know, it doesn't just don't do what you can't live that your suitcases up on the on the train, if that's how you're travelling. And if you are, like many Americans who want to stay in eight different places over eight nights, you're carting around that, not one, probably two giant suitcases. So, be light. And do not pack that one.

Diccon  

Yes, I think that's always good advice. Whether you're going to Switzerland or whether for me coming here. I'm surviving on one normal-size suitcase for a whole month, which does mean doing laundry in places. But that is possible, with Airbnb’s or with hotel laundries. I think the other big question for, especially for people coming from North America, from USA, Canada, to Switzerland is 'how am I going to get around?' Because unless they live between New York and Washington, DC, they are not used to trains.

Diccon  

Or buses. I've met many people on this current tour who have never been on a train in their life, not once. Whereas in Switzerland, trains and buses are a way of life. And they do reach everywhere. But there are pluses and minuses for anything. I would say the plus for train travel is you can buy a train pass before you arrive. So you don't have to think about tickets, you don't have to think about 'oh, is that the best route?' or 'is that the more cost effective route?' You can experience. Swiss travel very easily with a pass and the pass will cover trains and buses and boats on the lakes and many cable cars as well.

Beth  

Or buses.

Beth  

And admission to some museums

Diccon  

And admission to some museums. And it's a really easy way to get around Switzerland, the train reaches most places. And if the train doesn't go there, a bus will go there. You don't have the hassle of driving or parking or paying for parking or paying parking fines.

Beth  

Or finding parking if you're in a bigger city!

Diccon  

Or worrying about roundabouts, because I know roundabouts aren't a big thing in America, but they're a big thing in Europe.

Beth  

They're getting to be big here.

Diccon  

But there is the downside that if you're, say, a family of four, then a car is more cost effective, because trains in Switzerland are not particularly cheap. They're a wonderful service. They go lots of places. They're very comfortable. They have some amazing scenic routes, but the costs do mount up. So, you may think that for a family of four, or four friends travelling together, a car is more cost-effective. But you have to remember the other thing is, trains go places that cars can't. So, for instance, to get from where I live in Canton Bern down to the Matterhorn by train is very easy. It's two hours, because we go through a tunnel and that tunnel does not exist for cars. You can put the car on a train and go through the tunnel. If you don't want to do that you have to drive all the way around, via Lake Geneva. So, there are sometimes when the train has the advantage, and you get to see things that you couldn't possibly see. Zermatt itself, the town at the foot of the Matterhorn is car free, you cannot drive there. So, if you do drive up there, you have to park in the town before, in Täsch and take the little shuttle train in. So, it isn't always as simple as 'train is great, car is bad' or 'car is flexible, train is inflexible'. I would always suggest looking at where you want to go, how you want to get around, whether you want to have to think about things when you're doing it, and how many people you are, and find the answer that's best for you.

Beth  

I am a huge advocate of the rail pass. And I agree Diccon - economy of scale, if you've got a large family, it would make some sense to rent a car. The SBB has a wonderful app that tells you when a train comes when it leaves and where you're..

Diccon  

Even which platform is on and it covers every form of transport, not just the national railway. So that covers mountain rails, mountain trains which are different companies, or cable cars or buses or boats. So, it is a, public transport in Switzerland is an all-inclusive system, whether that's one ticket covering various forms of transport or one timetable app that covers everything.

Beth  

And it's lovely because the let's say the day before you're wondering, okay, I'm going to go up to Adelboden, which is in the mountains in Canton Bern. And how do I get there? Oh, I'm going to take a train, then I have to take another train. And that one comes every hour. But we only have about a two-minute layover. And it's so efficient. And it's easy. And I was intimidated, because I hadn't been on a train probably since I was 10 years old. Because we have cars here. The other thing, well, two things. You're not constantly looking at a map, although I know now we have navigation. The driver can actually, if you're you're not driving, you're on the train, you can see out and look at the mountains, look at the lakes. It is stunning scenery that you don't really experience when you're driving on the highway.

Diccon  

No, that's true. I mean, I've driven around Switzerland, and you don't see a lot because you have to concentrate. And of course, you can be flexible, you can have a train pass. And then if you really want to go and explore a little bit away from the public transport, you just hire a car for a day. That's relatively easy. So, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can mix and match. But when it comes to eating, it is harder to mix and match. I know you have some eating stories because eating out is expensive in Switzerland. I think that we have to take that, not for granted, we have to take that as a given, that you will spend more if you're eating out than if you are self-catering.

Beth  

And that's from McDonald's to a fancy restaurant.

Diccon  

Yeah. But there are some ways you can save a few pennies. I know you have your favourite tip.

Beth  

I don't eat out much in a restaurant, I go to either the Coop or the Migros. So, the two grocery stores that are almost in every village and you buy your bread for very little, whatever you would like to eat. For me it would be cheese, little sausage, maybe some wine and bring it back to where I'm staying. And that will get me by for two or three meals and I spent 10 Swiss francs or less.

Diccon  

Or if you do want to eat out, then both Coop and Migros have, in the larger stores, they have in-house restaurants, which are very cost-effective, they are usually semi-self-service. So, there'll be a chef cooking something fresh, but then there'll be a salad bar and things like that. They're you typically only open from Monday to Saturday, for lunches. But they are really quick and easy way to get a nice meal for not too much. And the other thing I always point out to Americans who write to me or moan personally, when they say, 'oh my god $25 for a pizza', because that's what a pizza can cost in Switzerland. It's usually around 17, 18, 19, something like that. But every price in a Swiss restaurant includes tax and service. So, you don't have to tip that's the tip. You don't have to tip if you don't want to you can tip obviously it's always welcome, but it is included. So, whereas I had my $20 Pizza in America here a couple of weeks ago, and then 8% sales tax and then 20% tip on top, after the tax and it all adds up to effectively more than the same pizza would cost in Switzerland. And obviously pizza is a universal example that you can find everywhere. And if you start eating meat or fish or having alcohol in Switzerland, it does get progressively more expensive. But always remember that what you see is what you get on a Swiss menu, there aren't any hidden costs, unlike the surprises you get in an American restaurant.

Beth  

And if you are in a larger community in Switzerland, very often a restaurant will have a menu for us in English. I can read German well enough now that I have an idea of what I'm ordering, but oftentimes an English menu is available. However, realise that when you are in the small communities, people are, are speaking their dialect. Many, yes, they learn English when they are in their early elementary schools, at that age, as we would know. But then they haven't spoken it for years. So, they're uncomfortable with it. And so, the communication can be a little bit more difficult. But it's okay, I've experienced pantomiming and it worked just fine. But understand that not everyone does speak English, many do, but not everyone and don't have that expectation that everyone will.

Diccon  

For sure. And I think that's one of the misconceptions about Switzerland because it's a country of four national languages, that a lot of people assume that everyone is multilingual and lots of people are, and English is the unofficial fifth national language. But the further you go away from tourist areas or larger cities, the less likely you are to find people who speak fluent English. With the younger generation it's more likely than the older generation. And of course, then you get the the issue of false friends. For instance, the word menu itself - in Switzerland, 'menu' is a fixed-price meal, which is served at lunchtime. So if you ask for the menu is typically a soup or a salad to start a main course and then a coffee. It is not the menu, or the, in German you say the 'Speisekarte', so literally the 'meal card', which shows you all the dishes that are à la carte and that can be ordered separately. So, you'll come across false friends like that, which will just make your visit more entertaining.

Beth  

I like that 'false friends'. One thing that comes to mind to that harkens back to a bit of a conversation we had a couple of minutes ago is, if you are expecting if you're looking for your Heimat, you're looking for people that you might be related to. And you do want to go into the what we would call the county courthouse. These individuals, first of all, do not work for Americans, or they're not there to help us out. You do need to make appointments, you do need to find someone who can speak English with you who knows what you want to do. Same thing with the churches, most of them you can walk in, but there's not someone there to talk to you, nor go through the church records. Plan for that in advance. If you do, then you won't be disappointed.

Diccon  

And I think that goes for most things now. You can plan in advance. So, for instance, if you want to use the Swiss travel pass, you have to buy it before you go to Switzerland.

Diccon  

You can buy it online, it's easy. But once you're there, it's much harder. And if you're a resident, it's not even available to you. But I would also say don't over plan every minute, because you might think 'oh this is beautiful, let's stay, let's go for a hike'. Hiking is very easy in Switzerland, is very well signposted everywhere and very accessible. And so, plan what you feel you have to plan whether it's appointments or travel passes, and then leave lots of flexibility so that you can make the most of your time in Switzerland, which after all is the home of watchmaking, so we do look after time. But sometimes it's easy to lose track of time when you're out hiking or when you're on an amazing train ride. So just go with the flow and enjoy Switzerland for what it has to offer.

Beth  

Online.

Beth  

And Switzerland to me is truly one of the most magical places I've ever been. Of course, that's where my heritage is from. I'm now a dual citizen of the US and Switzerland. But to arrive there at the most beautiful airport in Zurich. It's so easy, it's clean, it's fast. Heidi and Alphorns welcome you.

Diccon  

It's a bit kitsch.

Beth  

It's wonderful! It makes me happy every time I'm there!

Diccon  

And they hand out chocolate. If you fly Swiss, they hand out chocolate as you land.

Beth  

They do.

Diccon  

Yeah.

Beth  

But it's a beautiful country. And I just echo Diccon - take your time, smell the roses or the alpen flowers!

Diccon  

Yes. So, thanks for your input, Beth. It's been great to speak to you. I will have to come back so we can do this again in a few years' time.

Beth  

Promise?

Diccon  

Yep.

Beth

Good!

Diccon  

You can find out all the information that we've mentioned today about Swiss passes or about the Swiss Centre itself in the show notes so that you can access it online. And we'll be back again with Daniel another time to talk about more things Swiss.

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