Topics covered

• Do Swiss people date expats?
• How to meet and approach people in Switzerland
• Passive, active and online dating
• Dating etiquette
• Kelly’s three-date rule and ‘The five plus two’ 
• Expat dating excuses and how to overcome them
• Dating with ADHD

 

Many expats struggle with dating in Switzerland. In this episode, Kelly Brändli from Sinaps talks about Swiss dating etiquette, how expats can connect with locals, and how to build lasting romantic relationships in Switzerland.

 

Who We're Speaking With

Kelly Brändli is a dedicated dating and relationship coach, as well as an expert ADHD coach. With over a decade of experience, Kelly combines a unique personal journey with ADHD and professional training to help couples, families, and individuals navigate the complexities of neurodiverse relationships.

Drawing on her background as a dating and relationship coach, Kelly empowers clients to improve communication, manage conflicts, and build healthier relationships, especially when ADHD is in the mix. 

Having worked with countless families, couples, and individuals, Kelly offers a compassionate and practical approach that has transformed the lives of many.

Outside of coaching, Kelly is the mother of two boys with ADHD and the partner of a late- diagnosed man. She is a passionate advocate for ADHD awareness and lives in the beautiful Zurich Oberland with her family and gorgeous ADHD support dog Ice.

 

About the Episode

Here are some of Kelly’s tips for expats living in Switzerland and looking to date:

1.   Don’t get caught up in excuses: You might be hesitant to start dating because you think you’ll move away again soon. But many expats end up staying in Switzerland for longer than they initially intended. Also, Swiss residents are often open to moving somewhere else, so your new partner might move with you if you decide to leave Switzerland. 
2.    Try multiple strategies: Date passively, actively, and online. Passive dating is when you meet people while going about your day-to-day life, for example on the train or in your neighbourhood. Active dating is when you trade money or time for the chance to meet someone. Online dating happens on apps, and it can be a great tool to expand your dating pool. 
3.    Stick to the three-date rule: According to the three-date rule, you should meet someone at least three times before deciding whether you might be compatible. This gives you a chance of getting to know the whole person in several different settings. 
4.    Pay attention to the five plus two: Kelly recommends that you come up with five must-haves and two deal breakers. This helps you determine whether you’re compatible with someone more quickly.

 

Resources

The One Dating & Relationship Coaching

Sinaps

The Path to Lasting Relationships: The 5+2 Dating Blueprint

10 Dating Tips for Expats - How to Find The One

Active and Passive Dating: Your Paths to Finding 'The One' This Summer

Swiss marriage statistics

 

Next steps

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Transcript

Kathrin: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Living in Switzerland. The series is brought to you by Rigby. We are a staffing and project services company based in Zurich. If you or anyone you know of is looking for a new role in Switzerland, or if you're looking to hire, let us know. We'd be happy to help.

The best way to do that is by going to rigby.ch/apply and filling out the form. Then, if we have anything that might be of interest, we'll gladly let you know.

Today, we are joined by Kelly Brändli, a dedicated dating and relationship coach, as well as an expert ADHD coach. With over a decade of experience, Kelly combines a unique personal journey with ADHD and professional training to help couples, families, and individuals navigate the complexities of neurodiverse relationships.

Drawing on her background as a dating and relationship coach, Kelly empowers clients to improve communication, manage conflicts, and build healthier relationships, especially when ADHD is in the mix.

Having worked with countless families, couples, and individuals, Kelly offers a compassionate and practical approach that has transformed the lives of many.

Outside of coaching, Kelly is the mother of two boys with ADHD and the partner of a late- diagnosed man. She is a passionate advocate for ADHD awareness and lives in the beautiful Zurich Oberland with her family and gorgeous ADHD support dog Ice.

Kelly, welcome to the show.

Kelly: Thank you so much for the invitation, for giving me the chance to share my knowledge with you and all your listeners. I really appreciate that.

Kathrin: Yeah. I think it'll be really helpful. So obviously we've already heard a little bit about you, but could you tell us a little about, maybe how you came to live in Switzerland and all that?

Kelly: Yeah, sure. So I came to Switzerland back in 2001 and, uh, I was in a relationship then with a Swiss man.

And so as many, I came for love. But I always say I stayed for the love of it because it's such a beautiful country to live in. At that time, I was, you know, in a corporate job working in the pharmaceutical industry. And then my life took a bit of a change, shortly after my son was born and my marriage started to crumble and that put me on a new path and journey in my life.

And wanting to have a healthy relationship after my divorce, I got into the field of matchmaking and then dating coaching, relationship coaching. And that's been my life for well over a decade now, working in that area. And I absolutely love it.

And then, um, I got into a new relationship with a really wonderful man. And, as part of that journey, we discovered you know, that his son has ADHD. My son had already been diagnosed. And then we learned that he has ADHD as well. I learned that ADHD is genetic and when a child has it, there's an over 80 percent chance that one of the parents has it as well. And so that started us on the diagnosis journey.

And as a result of that, I have developed this extreme passion for helping couples and families who are impacted by ADHD learn to manage the symptoms better so that they can thrive and have a happy home.

Kathrin: Amazing. And it's a lot of people, isn't it? It affects quite a lot of people.

Kelly: Yeah. I mean, realistically, the diagnosis rate is about 5 percent in Switzerland, but there are estimates that it could be as high as 15%.

Kathrin: Right.

Kelly: Especially in adults because the diagnosis rate is really low. Only about 2.5 percent of adults are actually diagnosed in Switzerland currently.

Kathrin: Okay. Okay. So a lot of them maybe don't even know.

Kelly: Exactly.

Kathrin: Okay. Interesting. And, so you obviously were dating in Switzerland as an expat. Right?

Kelly: Yes.

Kathrin: So let's talk a little bit about that. Some people I think when they first arrive or maybe if they work in an English- speaking job, they feel like they're in a little bit of an expat bubble. So, do you think it's easier to date another expat while you're living in Switzerland or do Swiss people and expats also frequently date?

Kelly: There is this, sort of, belief in Switzerland that the Swiss are not open to expats, but I wanted to kind of break that myth.

So I did a little research before our call today just to find out the statistics from the federal government, what they put out in terms of marriage levels in Switzerland. So, the last data they've published was from 2020, and there was 35,000 marriages happening in Switzerland, and 34 percent of those were between Swiss and an expat. So, the Swiss do date people from outside the country. Only 15 percent of the marriages happening were between two expats. So it's actually, you know, a higher number of Swiss marrying people from other countries. So don't believe that theory. I think what's important is understanding, you know, that the Swiss have quite strong traditions, quite a strong culture. And if you come and are open to integrating, to learning a little bit of the language, to learning what's going on in the country and how things work, then I think people should have no problem actually dating Swiss and creating very happy relationships with the locals.

Kathrin: Okay. Well, that's really good to know.

So what are your best tips for an expat who, maybe, is starting to look at dating in Switzerland?

Kelly: I think, as I said, you know, learning the basics of the language is really important. A large portion of the Swiss population do speak English as well, but they tend to be a bit reactive when you just approach them in English.

So if you can approach them initially with a few words in Swiss German by saying, you know, Grüezi or, you know, Hoi or something, you know, very basic, then it puts them not on the defensive and they're much more receptive to then switching and speaking English. So that's something important for people to know.

Also, about understanding what's going on locally in the country. So, staying up to date on, you know, current events. There's two English newspapers or digital newspapers that I always recommend people read. There's the Swiss Times and then there's thelocal.ch, which has everything in English, so you can always stay up to date.

The Swiss culture is very much based on democracy, so there's a lot of referendums, which is a common topic that the Swiss will be discussing. So, you'll want to make sure you understand what's the next vote that's coming up? What are the different sides of the argument? What are people talking about?

And then you can have these discussions. And I think that makes the Swiss much more open to wanting to interact with expats.

Kathrin: Okay. That's a really good point. That's an interesting one. Yeah. And what about where to find people to date? So, I know a lot of people, they primarily think about work, like, at first when they maybe come, their work is their main source of social contact. So, do you think it's a good idea to then also branch out and try to find people in other places?

Kelly: Definitely. In my dating coaching, I talk about three ways to date. I say there's passive, active and online dating.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: So passive dating is meeting people just going about your day to day. So that would mean meeting people at work. It could also be people, you know, who share the same commute with you that you see regularly on the train or the tram, those kinds of things.

Active dating is important. It's about trading either time or money for the chance to meet people. And here I recommend people get involved with local groups. It could be a sporting group if you're interested. It could be some kind of hobby. It's important that you have what we call proximity. So you see the same people over and over again, which is important for building relationships.

It's much easier that way than just, you know, going up and speaking to a stranger on the train. If you're, you know, going to say - right now, everyone's into paddle as a sport - if you go to a paddle club every Thursday evening and you see the same people, then you start to build a friendship and then it's easier to transition that then into a relationship.

And then the third one is online dating, of course, we know is still a really popular way to meet people. Switzerland has a lot of the big, you know, popular dating apps. It also has a lot of niche apps as well that are very oriented to the German-speaking market. But you can actually use those apps even in English.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: I met my partner on a dating app. And he doesn't speak a word of English. My profile was in English and when we first started communicating, he used Google Translate to reply to me. So, it can work. It's not an issue to put up an English profile on a German-speaking app.

Kathrin: Okay. And then how would you deal with the language barriers? So you mentioned that was, with your husband, that was initially something.

Kelly: So, I actually am fluent in Swiss, so it wasn't a problem. I didn't realize that he doesn't speak English at the beginning, which is a bit of a funny story because I just assumed he felt more comfortable writing in German, but I didn't know that he didn't understand my English at all, which was quite funny.

But like I said, the vast majority of people do speak English. The Swiss are very good with languages, as you know, they've got uh, four, I guess three official languages and then plus English is four languages that quite a few of the people understand. Especially, you know, in corporate jobs, people tend to be fluent in English. So, in most cases, that's not really a major concern.

Kathrin: And in cities as well, they tend to be more fluent, right?

Kelly: Yeah, absolutely.

Kathrin: Any other tips about dating apps in Switzerland, like what to do, what not to do, maybe?

Kelly: Yeah, um, I think the, the dating app scene has changed quite a lot post-pandemic. So, there was a massive growth in dating apps.

And then there's a lot of people, have been leaving the dating apps recently because of some of these changes. So, it's important to be very clear on the apps, what you're looking for.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: So not all apps, you know, even though we think people on an app are looking for a long-term relationship, that isn't always the case, um, you know, there's some apps that have a reputation of being more of a hookup app. There's other ones that tend to be more long-term relationship focused. So you want to choose the correct app for what you're looking for in terms of a relationship.

Um, I talk about kind of like the fast and the slow apps. A fast app is like a Tinder where you're just swiping, you know, so you're very quick. And then we've got slow apps like something like a Parship where you're having to fill out a questionnaire and give a lot more data. Those apps tend to be much more relationship focused. So that's an important differentiator. And then even when you're on an app to be clear what you're looking for. I always recommend being open and honest. A lot of people will lie about their age and post photos that are ten years old.

Kathrin: Right.

Kelly: That doesn't do you any favours because when you actually meet somebody, you want them to be pleasantly surprised when they meet you and not disappointed you don't look like your ten-year-old photos. So don't do that. Um, just sort of general app etiquette. Don't put half, you know, naked photos or men topless photos, bathroom selfies, these kinds of things. You see them all the time, but they're not actually great ways to attract the right kind of partner on a dating app.

So don't do that. Photos are really important. And then don't use the app as an actual way to date. I think that's a misnomer to say that they're dating apps. They're actually just places to meet.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: And so, you want to get off an app as quickly as possible and get into an in-person meeting, whether that's a telephone call, a video chat, or actually going on a date. People have this sense that, if I talk to somebody for weeks or months on a dating app, I can trust them. 

Kathrin: Oh, I see, yeah.

Kelly: But the reality is, is that when we communicate, only 15 percent of what we communicate are our words. The rest is our tone of voice, our facial expressions, um, mimics, et cetera. And so on an app, you can only ever get to know 15 percent of a person. So, it's a false sense of trust that people build up. And actually, the longer you stay on a dating app before meeting, the higher the risk is that someone will try to take advantage of you through a dating app scam.

Kathrin: Oh, I see. Okay. Interesting, yeah.

Kelly: And asking for money. So, I always recommend try and get off the app as quickly as possible and meet in person.

Kathrin: Okay. Yeah. And then you have this three-date rule.

Kelly: Yes.

Kathrin: What's that about? So, let's, let's assume that all went well and the people had the first date. Why a three-date rule?

Kelly: Yeah, it's not the three date rule that I think we used to say like, no sex before the third date. No, it's not that. We are in a society where everything happens so fast and we think that we can make decisions. And I encourage people to date somebody three times before they make a yes or no decision because, you know, today's society, a date is often, you know, an hour coffee date.

And how can you understand if you're compatible with someone in an hour coffee date? You can't really. So I always say, date somebody three times and give them a chance to see them in a different environment. So you might have a first coffee date, then you might do something active on a second date. And then a third date might be more the, sort of, dinner where you get to really ask questions and check compatibility.

And so, I think it just encourages people not to sort of be on this, this quick swipe. Oh, next, next. There's always more people, and actually to give somebody a chance to get to know them.

Kathrin: Yeah. And people might, during the first date, they might be nervous, or they might not feel fully confident to show themselves. So I guess by the third date, you're more likely to get the real person.

Kelly: Exactly. And I always tell people first dates can be really great. Second dates are often not as good as the first date because now there's expectation coming in. You know, a lot of times first dates, people will go and they might be nervous or they might be more authentic, but then on a second date, they'll act a bit strange.

And then on a third date, there's more of this comfort coming in where they can, again, act more like themselves. And so through three dates, you should be able to see the true person sitting in front of you.

Kathrin: Are there any exceptions? Like, when should you not go on three dates?

Kelly: Exactly. So, I teach people a method that I've developed, which I call my five plus two dating blueprint.

And in this, we go through a person's values to really understand what their five core life values are, and their two deal breakers. And your five core life values are basically how you live your life. And we often think that so many things are important. Like if I asked you what is important to you in a partner, people often give me a list of like 15, 20 things, and they're all sort of equally important.

And I encourage them to say, okay, what are the five most important things you need in a partner for you to live your authentic self?

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: And then what are the two deal breakers? Where if a person had this, there would be no point in starting a relationship. So, an easy one is, you know, for, people who want to have a family, right? If they meet somebody who never wants to have children, there's no point in starting a relationship and hoping they change their mind.

Kathrin: Yeah, absolutely.

Kelly: They’re better off finding someone else who wants kids, right? And so that's a deal breaker. And so then in that case, I would say don't date that person a second or third time because that's not going to change.

So. you want to be clear what your two deal breakers are.

Kathrin: Yeah.

Kelly: And be looking for those in those first three dates. And if one of those pops up, then, you know, you don't continue dating them. There can be all kinds of things as deal breakers. It could be, you know, somebody's use of alcohol or drugs. It could be their status, you know, whether they have children, want children. Um, there can be certain values, you know, maybe... I had one guy who owned a boat and loved to sail and, you know, a deal breaker for him was a woman who got seasick because he spent so much time... Yeah. You know, so it could be, it's always unique to you, but those are kind of things where it doesn't make sense to go into a dating process with somebody who's never going to be compatible with you.

Kathrin: That makes sense. Yeah. And maybe one thing that comes up sometimes with expats is expat-related excuses.

Kelly: Yeah.

Kathrin: Sometimes people are reluctant to date because they say things like maybe, "Oh, I'm only here for a year. I don't really need to get settled" or "Oh, I don't speak the language. I can't really date in Switzerland". So, what would you say to that?

Kelly: I hear that all the time. And I also hear so many expats who've come here, planning to stay for a year. I was one of them. I've now been here 24 years. People come to Switzerland and fall in love with it so I think, you know, we need to put those excuses to the side because you can't put your life on hold indefinitely waiting, you know, to say, I might move again. Yeah, you may move again, but maybe you find your life partner and you guys move together. And so, it's important not to keep using an excuse: it's my career, I'm abroad, whatever, to put your personal life on hold. I have so many clients who said, you know, a decade's passed and I keep using the same excuses. And. you know, now, women who said, I wanted children, and I waited too long, you know, it's important to prioritise this side of your life and not always put the career in the number one spot, even though it is an important aspect.

I used to be a head hunter myself for many, many years.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: And I learned that many people keep changing their job thinking that's what's going to give them happiness. But at the end of the day, they really want someone to share their life with.

Kathrin: So, prioritising that, even if you do think you might only be here temporarily or, um...

Kelly: Exactly. And being open about it when you're dating people, you know, to say, I don't know how long I'm going to stay in Switzerland. How do you think, you know? And you know, a lot of the Swiss love to travel. They are open to moving. So, you know, even if you met someone Swiss, it doesn't mean that you would have to stay here as a couple.

Kathrin: That's right.

Kelly: A lot of them are quite open to say, "Oh, okay. You know, if you go back home, I'd love to move with you back there". And so, you know, don't always assume that you know the outcome, you need to talk about it and figure it out.

Kathrin: Yeah. I mean, it's a huge group, the Swiss expats. I'm obviously one of them and we're about, almost 10%, I think, of the Swiss population lives in another country.

So definitely we're open to it.

Kelly: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Kathrin: Okay. And so now, another nice one is some things to do on a date in Switzerland. So, let's go through what you would suggest. Obviously, there are almost endless possibilities, but any ideas?

Kelly: Yeah, I think, you know, in Switzerland, being active and being outdoors is certainly a key.

I'm not a big fan of the coffee date. That's something I tell a lot of my clients. So, I usually recommend that on a first date you do something where you're walking.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: It's a nice way to keep the conversation going. You've got things that you can always talk about as you're moving around. So whether you go on a hike together, you go walk around, you know, a lake somewhere depending on where you're living. Anice thing if you want to do a coffee date is combine it, you know, I say, you know, take the cogwheel train up to Pilatus and have the coffee up there.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: Get the fresh air, the sunshine, especially, you know, when we're in fall right now, you know, when we're in the fog to go up above it and just have that feeling. It's important on a date that you create a positive atmosphere because that transfers actually to the person that you're dating.

You associate the positive experience with the person. And so just sitting at a, at a coffee shop and having, like, an interview date is not a super exciting experience for most people. So do it at the zoo or go on a wine tour and, in Switzerland, we've got these fox trails. So they're like scavenger hunts, which is something fun to do. Gives you conversation. And those are great, kind of, first date ideas.

And then, like I said, do something different for your second and your third date. On a third date, I generally recommend people do the kind of more romantic dinner date, because then you really have a chance to look each other in the eye and ask those really important, deep questions where you want to know, like, what are your views on starting a family before you make a yes, no decision if you decide.

Kathrin: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So going a little deeper there.

Kelly: Yeah.

Kathrin: Okay. Um, and so, let's talk a little bit about your work. So, who comes to you? Who can benefit from your help?

Kelly: Well, I have been working primarily with expat singles in Switzerland for the last decade. Now I've kind of transitioned more in terms of dating work.

I work with a lot of people who are with neurodiversity and their dating lives and their relationship lives. So that's been a bit of a transition recently with my focus on ADHD, but you know, I still do private dating coaching for those who are interested in looking for some guidance.

What is different about the work that I do to a lot of other dating coaches is, I always say you need to become the one before you find the one.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: And that process is a lot of self-discovery. And so, for people to say, you know, this five plus two model I have, a lot of people don't know what their core values are. Or what a good partner for them actually looks like. And there is this idea that, you know, chemistry or the spark is what we are looking for to determine a good partnership.

And actually, that's a really great way to determine someone you're genetically compatible with to reproduce, but it's a really poor litmus test for a good partnership.

Kathrin: Right.

Kelly: And so you want to understand what compatibility is for you. And that's a big part of how I help people in coaching is getting to know themselves, getting to know what a good partner for them would look like, and then how to actually go about meeting them and vetting that person before they get into a long-term relationship.

Kathrin: Okay. Yeah. That sounds so helpful.

So how does the coaching work? So, if I'm a new client and I come to you, what happens next?

Kelly: Yeah. So, for dating, I have a program that's called Dating Mastery, which is a series of modules with different videos and training that I do. So for example, like I would explain what the five plus two model is and how we go about creating your five plus two.

There's workbooks, and so people start by going through the modules and the workbooks. And then in private coaching, we meet on a weekly basis. And I guide people through all this work that they're doing and ask those really important questions that people often don't think to ask themselves.

And, I have one client, you know, talking about what we were speaking about, should I date someone local? And what if I want to move one day? And, you know, it's through that process of me probing that she actually came to the realisation that she's been in Switzerland now for 16 years and she probably will never go back to the US, but she just had that in her mind, like one day I'm going back. And so it was keeping her out of the dating game. And, you know, just by me probing her, it was that light bulb moment where she's like, you know what, this is my home. I don't see myself really ever going back, and I just bought into this excuse that I've used for so many years.

And so sometimes that's, you know, just that question can shift someone's mindset completely and give them a different approach to not only dating, but to their life in general.

Kathrin: Yeah, I think it's, you're right, that often these things are excuses that people use just because it's, it can be quite daunting if you don't know where to start or maybe you're in a new place.

Kelly: But yeah, we do that. We don't question our own beliefs. We always look for evidence to prove what we believe. And so if we keep believing I'm leaving, then we're always going to look for evidence for that. We're going to see opportunities, you know, outside, but we won't follow them. Something subconsciously will stop us.

Kathrin: Okay.

Kelly: And that's the importance. I mean, whether it's dating coaching or just life coaching in general, it can be so powerful of helping you really question your thoughts and where you've been focusing your attention.

So that's why I love what I do. It's great to see how it can transform people's lives.

Kathrin: Yeah, it sounds amazing.

So how can listeners get in touch with you if they want some additional help or to book an appointment?

Kelly: Yeah, I think best is, you'll put my links in the show notes, I think. Visit my website, whether that's kellybrandli.com where I do dating coaching, or https://www.sinaps.ch/, which is about neurodiversity relationship and dating coaching. You can contact me there as well as all my social media links. I'm on all the big platforms. You can connect with me there and I'd be really happy to hear from people. If you're interested in setting up, we can also have a first call on my website. So there's a link to book a call with me. So, I invite anybody who's interested to go ahead and do that.

Kathrin: Okay. Great.

All right. So that's it for today. Thanks once again to our guest Kelly for joining us.

Kelly: Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Kathrin: And thanks to you for listening. We'll include links in the show notes to our guests and to further materials about some of the topics that we've spoken about today.

If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review on your favourite podcast platform. Once again, this podcast was brought to you by Rigby. We're a staffing and project services company here in Zurich. If you would like our help either to hire or to be hired, let us know. Best way to do that is by going to rigby.ch/apply and filling out the form. You can also sign up for our newsletter at rigby.ch/newsletter to receive our living in Switzerland guide. We'll send you one email per month about expat-focused news and jobs in Switzerland.

So, thanks. And until the next time.