Topics Covered

• Finding a place to live in Switzerland
• Finding a community
• Moving with a family
• The trailing spouse
• Professional life as an expat
• How expat coaching can help

 

Who We're Speaking With

Esteban Polidura is an ACC certified coach with the International Coaching Federation and a certified mental health first aider through ensa in Switzerland. His goal is to empower expats to thrive in their new life abroad. Over two decades in banking and extensive coaching experience allow him to bring a unique blend of strategic insight and empathetic support to help his clients reach their full potential. 

 

About the Episode

Since moving from Mexico to Switzerland six years ago, Esteban has helped many other expats with their transition. Here are some of his most important tips:

1. Make an effort to respect others: Switzerland’s culture is based on mutual respect. For example, many people consider it rude to play loud music or have loud phone conversations on trains. If you want to integrate successfully, follow the rules of etiquette. Many are implicit, but some are explicit. For example, there is usually a sign on trains explaining the most common etiquette rules.
2. Take advantage of online groups: There are many groups on platforms like Facebook and Meetup. They not only organise in-person events, but they also have many experienced members who are happy to help you with any questions you have about living in Switzerland. This is particularly useful if you live in a more rural area, where there may not be so many other expats.
3. Set realistic expectations: Start doing research before you arrive in Switzerland. This will help you understand how finding an apartment, taking out insurance, and other important processes work. It’s also important to research the cost of living. You might have a higher salary in Switzerland, but you’ll likely also spend more money. If you know what to expect, you’ll have a much better start in Switzerland.
4. Provide children with a diverse social environment: Expat kids tend to integrate more quickly if they interact with several groups. Aside from school, make sure they have access to other kids at extracurricular activities or clubs.
5. Plan for the trailing spouse: Trailing spouses can find the transition challenging, especially if they don’t work or speak the local language. When moving as a couple, make sure the trailing spouse can also build up a life in Switzerland. They might take language classes, join expat groups, volunteer, or even do job training and get a job, if eligible.
6. Consider expat coaching: With a coach, you can set relevant goals and take steps to reach them. A coach is like a partner who helps you figure out where you need to go and keeps you accountable along the way.

 

Resources

Esteban’s website

Esteban on LinkedIn

Esteban’s books

Migros Club School

 

Next steps

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Transcript

Kathrin: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Living in Switzerland. The series is brought to you by Rigby. We are a staffing and project services company based in Zurich. If you or anyone you know of is looking for a new role in Switzerland, or if you're looking to hire, let us know. We'd be happy to help. The best way to do that is by going to rigby.ch/apply and filling out the form. Then, if we have anything that might be of interest, we'll gladly let you know.

Today we are joined by Esteban Polidura. Esteban is an ACC certified coach with the International Coaching Federation and a certified mental health first aider through ensa in Switzerland. His goal is to empower expats to thrive in their new life abroad. Over two decades in banking and extensive coaching experience allow him to bring a unique blend of strategic insight and empathetic support to help his clients reach their full potential.

Esteban, welcome to the show.

Esteban: Thank you very much, Kathrin. It's a pleasure to be here with you and looking forward to chatting and exchanging ideas.

Kathrin: Absolutely. Yeah. So, let's start with just talking a little bit about your background. So, I know that you moved to Switzerland for work. Is that right?

Esteban: That's right. I moved to Switzerland six years ago, from Mexico, that's where I'm from originally. And yeah, I moved because I was hired by a Swiss bank to work along with not only the Latin American region, but other regions based in Switzerland. And this was the second time that I moved in my life. Previously I moved to the UK for a while to do my postgraduate studies, Kathrin.

Kathrin: Okay. Amazing. And so that obviously has allowed you to meet many other expats, I would think.

Esteban: Of course. No, well, Switzerland, first of all, I was surprised without knowing the numbers at the beginning, because of the interactions that I had, of how many expats there are. In the end, I found out that almost one third of people living in Switzerland have some sort of an expat route.

But that was, of course, shocking and also encouraging to see, because I immediately saw that lots of those expats were going through the same issues I was going. And to me, I would say again, it was not a complete shock because my family, from my mother's side, is from Switzerland. So I have been coming to Switzerland every year, a couple of times per year since I was young, and still it was at the beginning, Kathrin, a little bit of a challenge to adapt to the culture.

Kathrin: Yeah, of course, I think it's very different to visit and then actually to live there full time, right?

Esteban: Correct, correct. You know, during holidays, you experience a part of Switzerland that is different than the part that you experience when you live here. That's not to say that one is better than the other. But of course, living implies adapting a little bit more and getting to know other things, not only the tourist sites. And also making a little bit more of an effort, for example, speaking the language and other things, but in the end, it has been an extremely rewarding experience, Kathrin, one that I wouldn't change for anything.

Kathrin: Amazing. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. I think a lot of expats say that they come to Switzerland and then they enjoy it so much, they stay much longer than anticipated, right?

Esteban: Exactly. Because, you know Switzerland offers you many things that I would say you rarely find somewhere else. You know, it's not only the beautiful scenery. It's not only the amazing food, but it's also a society that is welcoming. It's also an environment of safety. So many, many things.

Kathrin: Yeah. So is there anything, maybe any specific challenges that you've faced or that expats commonly face when moving to Switzerland?

Esteban: Yeah, definitely. First challenge to me, and again, even though I knew this was related to how committed the people are to, you know to following the rules and making an effort not to bother other people, thinking ahead of how they might impact other people if they do or say certain things. You know, and that was the first thing.

I have many, many funny situations that I can share, but I'll share one quick one with you. While riding the train at the beginning, I was listening to music in my headset, and a person touched me and said I was listening to music too loud. No, and that's when I realised I had to pay attention even on those little things.

But six years later, I can tell you, I can notice when someone is listening to music too loud in their headphones.

Kathrin: Yeah, exactly. You pick up on it.

Esteban: You pick up. But you know, you pick up many, many good things that in reality allow society to work, allow Switzerland to have a welcoming environment, but also an environment of trust and safety in general.

Kathrin: Right. So maybe a little bit of a surprise when you come, but in the long term, you can start to appreciate it.

Esteban: Exactly. And again, the surprise might be simply because how different things in Switzerland are, but in reality, you quickly realise that they are different, because that's the way they should be. They are different because that's how society has been able to make things work. And again, very positive surprises. Quick example. Again, I was having a coffee at a Starbucks, and then I see that the person next to me. stands up and goes to the restroom. However, the person left on the table their computer, the cell phone, and the handbag.

And that's something that you won't see in another place. But in Switzerland you can, because there's that culture of respect and safety and I love it.

Kathrin: Absolutely. I mean, even on the train yesterday, I was on a train and it was completely packed, crowded, and someone got up from their seat and left their laptop charging, and nobody sat down. Nobody touched it. Everybody just left it alone until the person came back.

Esteban: Exactly. And, and, you know, that's, that's a very nice feeling because again, it gives you a sense of safety that you don't have in other places. Very rarely you have it.

Kathrin: Absolutely. So if you had to give one tip, maybe for someone moving to Switzerland, what would you say?

Esteban: I would say, first of all do your research about Switzerland, because again, you will find a society that works perfectly like a Swiss watch. So do your research, try to find out what are some of the common ways to behave. What are some of the things that people expect from you. For example, you might come as I did from a Latin country that's very used to being vocal and, you know, hugging, kissing, expressing. And in Switzerland, it might take a while for you to be able to open in that way. But if you learn those kind of things beforehand, I'm sure you can have a smoother transition and adapt quicker.

And also, of course, be willing if I may say a second one, Kathrin, be willing to learn the language, not only German, and you say this often in your communications, but also why not a little bit of Swiss German. It changes completely the dynamic with the local people. And again, it makes you feel part of the society.

Kathrin: Yeah, exactly. Even if it's just a few phrases, it just helps to break the ice, right? Because people can't speak English, they'll be happy to switch. But if you just approach them with a few phrases, they'll just start to smile. And I think it creates a better atmosphere.

Esteban: Switzerland offers you, you know, again, such a welcoming environment that you might feel tempted not to make an effort. You said it perfectly. People in general speak three, four, five languages and fluently. So you arrive here speaking English and you might never have the need to speak German, and even less Swiss German, but again, as you said, a few phrases in Swiss German, just to feel more embedded into the culture, will make a difference.

Kathrin: Yeah, it really does. And this is part of what you do, right, as a coach, is to help expats make the most of their lives and just figure out how to integrate better?

So maybe let's start at the beginning. When you come to a new country and you want to settle in, first of all, you have some practical concerns, right? So you might start by trying to figure out where to settle. What can you tell me about that?

Esteban: Exactly. Well, first of all, you said it well, the transition starts beforehand. Not when you arrive, when you are back home already thinking about moving. And again, here I think research can go a long way, because when you arrive in Switzerland, for example, one of the things that I experienced, Kathrin, and for you it might be common, it wasn't for me, was the fact that you have to really fight for an apartment. You have to be part of a list. They will interview in a similar way a job would have an interview to decide whether or not to pick you and then you have to hand in all sorts of documents, proof of income, and many more things. So that again might be a little bit of a shock because if you arrive without doing that research, you might end up a few weeks living in an Airbnb. So that's one.

And then the other one, which is also very important before you move is, learn and do research about insurance. Insurance is something that's taken very seriously in Switzerland, and again, something that you expect to know. And not only personal insurance, but your car insurance, your home insurance, damages to third party, so there are lots of insurances that you need to know and buy from some of the most known sources. And again, do that beforehand.

And then there are a few other things, but I think if you do that research before you move, you can then move and have a smoother first transition that allows you to focus on other things, Kathrin.

Kathrin: Yeah. So I guess on the one hand with the insurance, especially the health insurance, right, you need to take it out within 90 days because otherwise your council might assign you insurance that's not very suitable, so that's really important.

And then as you said, figuring out where you're going to live and how you're going to live. So obviously, I know some people like to settle very close to work. They might not want to commute, but also in Switzerland, because public transport is so good, you can live a bit further away, right? And then maybe if you prefer small-town living or living in the suburbs, you can still get to work really quickly.

Esteban: Absolutely. And you know, when you do that research, you also start to find out the kind of prices you will be expected to pay. And that's again, another shock to many people because prices in Switzerland are particularly high in certain things.

Yes you might have a higher income, but the cost of living is also higher. So do that research, otherwise, you might end up arriving, spending on things that are not necessary and in the end struggling to meet what you really expect to pay.

Kathrin: Yeah, that's another reason to come prepared, right? Because I mean, despite the high prices, many people in Switzerland can save a lot of money and they do well, but only if you're a bit disciplined and maybe you think about finding affordable insurance, finding an affordable home beforehand.

Esteban: Totally. And you know, I was just thinking when I arrived and I was in one of the train stations, I saw an advertisement for car leasing. And I remember looking at the rates, and the rates were to me extremely low, one percent, one and a half percent, something like that, or even less than that.

And of course, when you look at that, then your mind starts daydreaming no? You say, but that the one percent, I could not only go for this car, but for this SUV and this other car. And then that again might be misleading. You need to have a full picture of all those kinds of things to then decide. And my suggestion, Kathrin, would be, start extremely small, you said it, maybe live outside the city in a smaller place. Don't buy a car, wait a little bit so that you experience the cost of living. And then you slowly and gradually start making changes.

Kathrin: That's right. Then once you know what the baseline is, you can then maybe add some things as you wish.

Esteban: Correct.

Kathrin: And yeah, another interesting thing is if you're moving with a family. So obviously, if someone moves on their own, it's a bit more straightforward, but if there are children involved, how can you make sure that the children have a good experience with a move like this?

Esteban: That's it. You know many of us expats are used to having children attending a private school. And of course, Switzerland has private schools, but probably the cost of that private school in Switzerland will be very different to the private school in your home country. That's one. And then you might have to opt for a public school, which is equally good, but that's a switch in the head that the people need to turn off and on, depending on their circumstances. That's one.

And then the other thing, Kathrin, are the, the extracurricular activities, you know, kids are expecting also to join, you know, the karate lessons or football lessons. And all of those add up because all of those have certain costs. Maybe they even have to move to attend those extracurricular activities. And again, transportation. Public transportation in Switzerland is the best in my view in the world, but it also has its costs. So try to budget for all of that.

Kathrin: Absolutely. And yeah, I think involving kids in these things can be very important because school might be a way for them to make friends, but also if they've got some more diverse groups, maybe at these activities, they're more likely to settle in and you know, learn the language more quickly if they feel integrated, right?

Esteban: Yeah, and you know that the public school even for those who have the monetary capacity to pay private school, I would say that the public school has huge advantages and one of those is precisely the need to speak, for example, in Swiss German informally with the other students, which most likely will be more locals than expats I imagine. And again, that's an advantage because in a few months you will see your kids speaking a language they didn't speak before, completely embedded into the culture with new friends and having a transition that adults struggle with.

Kathrin: Yeah, sometimes it's easier for kids, isn't it? If they're supported also by the parents and by their environment.

Esteban: Exactly.

Kathrin: Are there any challenges for expat kids, do you think, and do you have any suggestions for making the transition easier, especially maybe if the kids are a bit older and they might already have settled networks at their old home and then they're kind of taken out of that?

Esteban: Yeah. I think the first challenge that I've seen that that the young kids or younger expats experienced, has to do precisely with the language Kathrin. And that's because, even though when they attend school, let's think about a public school, the lectures might be in German, the so called Hochdeutsch. Informally, they will speak with their friends in Swiss German, in Schweizerdeutsch. And that of course starts to become challenging for many of them because of course the words, the grammatic and the way of building sentences is different.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but even for Swiss nationals, suddenly having to speak perfect Hochdeutsch isn't easy. So that, I would say, is something that they will have to adapt, but they can do it. Of course, kids have that capacity.

Kathrin: Yeah. This is interesting because Swiss people often don't like speaking standard, like high German. So they'd actually often you'll find certain Swiss people might be more willing to switch to English rather than standard German, which is another reason why it's important to maybe not speak Swiss German, but at least to understand it. So then Swiss people can speak to you in Swiss German and if you want, you can answer in high German. But don't make them speak high German.

Esteban: No, and you know, that's a great combination. What you just said I've experienced because I have the advantage of speaking German before moving to Switzerland. So many times I end up doing precisely that. I speak in high German and people respond in Swiss German. And then the conversation flows perfectly fine.

Kathrin: Yeah, it works really well.

Esteban: Nobody cares if the grammatic is perfect or the pronunciation is as it should be. The thing here is both for children and for adults, learning those words, those sentences, making that effort is so much appreciated that it changes completely the dynamic.

Kathrin: And just as a side note, maybe, obviously a certain portion of Switzerland speaks French, which is a bit easier because there's not that much of a distinction between France French and Swiss French. So this only applies to the German side.

Esteban: Exactly. If you have the capacity to learn French or a few words in French or a few words in Italian for the south part of Switzerland, even better. But again, I think the bottom line here is, Swiss people are so well educated and most of them know, as I said, three, four or five languages, that you will be able to communicate. It will simply make a little bit of a difference if you make an effort to communicate in their own terms.

Kathrin: Yeah. For sure. Is there anything else that you'd like to say about expat kids?

Esteban: Well, for expat kids, again just to reinforce that maybe not need, but highly encourage situation of enrolling kids in activities outside school. And it might be anything. Again, it might be sports, it might be arts, it might be for the more religious expats, things related to that. But anything that I think kids can do after school that involve interacting with other kids and simply having a similar life as they did before will make a difference. Otherwise, Kathrin, they will end up in TikTok and nobody wants that.

Kathrin: Oh, yes, for sure. That's true. Speaking about online groups and social media, another important thing for both kids and adult is socialising and finding a community, of course.

And a good way to do that is to join some online groups, right?

Esteban: It might be actually one of the best because when we were speaking about moving and, and where to, to settle in yeah, many, many of us choose a place that's not really within the city. Let's say more of a town, a smaller town, and there having expat groups or support groups might be a little bit more challenging unless you end up moving to one of the metropolitan areas, let's say, around Zurich or Zug or Bern, you might struggle.

So online communities and social media communities are a great way to do that. For example, in my case, that's a mistake that I did. I, for example, didn't know about all these Facebook communities that exist of expats living in Switzerland. I only found out about that years after moving. And I would say, Kathrin, if I had known that before, probably I wouldn't have failed at the beginning, you know, alone or just by myself trying to figure things out. It's very easy and I'm sure people know much more than me about how to engage in those online communities.

Kathrin: Yeah, absolutely. I think it can be a way to just stay connected and to ask some important questions, but also maybe to then find people to meet up with, right?

Esteban: Exactly. And you know, they are as easy as some WhatsApp groups. And then you, of course, can ask a question and the beauty of those groups, if they are handled correctly, what I've seen is that you have all those other expats, Kathrin, more than willing to share their support. Their ideas, their experiences, and I think, again, that's a very nice feeling because you ask a question and suddenly you get 20 very good answers of people really trying to help you, and that's a nice feeling, as I said.

Kathrin: I think so, yeah. It really makes you feel at home and like you're welcomed.

Esteban: Yeah.

Kathrin: But then, of course, on the other hand, it's also important to do in-person meetups. So what are some of the options that you’ve found are quite helpful?

Esteban: For sure. And that's you know, when I was speaking about the online communities, I was even tempted to say the best, but it's not the best. It's the second best. The best is really to have that physical contact with other expats.

And how you can do that... First, and again, speaking from experience, not only in my case, but also from expats that I've coached. Simply approach your colleagues at work. You will see that already at work, you have many expat colleagues that know about other expats there and that have informal groups that get together once a week, once a month, and share experiences and support each other. You can do the same, for example with your human resources department.

And that's again. You said meetups, again, that's a great idea where you combine online with the in-person meetings. The meetup platform, yes it might be at the beginning an online effort. But in the end, the bottom line is physical presence and physical interaction. So, you might meet up with other expats to have coffee or have lunch. And again, the physical interaction, is unbeatable. And I know, Kathrin, of groups of all sorts that really sound fun. People that get together during the weekends to do hiking, to run every day in the morning, you know, to celebrate the holidays of your home country. So try that. I think the result will be amazing.

Kathrin: Yeah. And we've interviewed a few people from expat groups, like an American club or just an international group. And so if you go through our backlog of episodes, you'll find several options if you especially live around Zurich or Basel. And then maybe one more thing is classes. So when you come, a lot of people start by socialising with the people from their German or French class.

Esteban: Yeah, and there are, of course, many providers of those classes, but one again that I see often... You know, we have in Switzerland, this retail chain called Migros, which also has a very well-developed school business, and many expats find it very easy to have German lectures, but not only German, you can have classes of many other things, in those kinds of schools at very decent prices, and typically attended also by other expats. So, great idea.

Kathrin: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. We'll be back after a really short break.

(AD BREAK)

Kathrin: And now we're back.

Let's talk about the trailing spouse. So, another thing that tends to happen is one person gets a job in Switzerland, and then their spouse follows, and they might not immediately have the option to work, or they might not have found a job yet, or maybe don't speak the language as well yet. So do you have any advice about how to navigate moving with a partner or moving for your partner?

Esteban: Yes, of course. You know, the first challenge that I often see is that one of the partners is hired. Perfect. That person has a work permit. The other partner comes to Switzerland as someone following that other person, but the conditions are very different.

Yes, they might be able to live here with their partners, but they might struggle to find a job. They might struggle to have that community feeling because they end up spending a lot of the day alone at home, for example, if they don't get the chance to practice the language. And that's also another problem. And even, Kathrin, English. You know, the partner might be in the office speaking English and then trying the Swiss German sentences, but then the partner at home is isolated.

So, my suggestion is, you know, think always about your partner, what he or she might do when you go to work, and try to support them. Try to find ways for them to be active in an expat group, to be active learning, and if possible, Kathrin, to find ways to be productive. I think there are many ways, and the Swiss government provides a lot of tools for that, but there are ways to work and be productive.

Kathrin: Yeah, and whether that's on a voluntary basis as well, there are lots of things to get involved in, or as you said, in an expat group, maybe once they're settled helping other expats who are newly arriving, anything like that, there are lots of options.

Esteban: Yes.

Kathrin: But yeah, you have to be proactive, right?

Esteban: Correct. Again, many expats that I coach, I see that they focus on, you know, being successful themselves because they are the main, as they would say, breadwinners of that family. But even though that is important, the partner is equally important, and of course, the risk here, Kathrin, of not paying attention to the partner is that without a doubt, it will create frictions at some point, and it will put at risk that transition.

Kathrin: Yeah. So, let's move on to talk a little bit about professional life as well. So, I know that there are several different types of transitions, so someone might be forced to pivot to a different country because they might have experienced redundancy, or they might transition voluntarily because they're looking for a better life or for career progression or something. How do you think that affects the move?

Esteban: You said it well. You have those two ways to reach another country on the professional side. Now let's think about Switzerland. But the one thing that I've seen, Kathrin, in my coaching sessions, is that no matter if your transition was voluntary or forced, you will experience a combination of emotions to a different degree, but a combination of emotions and three are very common. You feel lonely, you feel fearful, afraid, and you feel sad.

Of course, for the person that moved willingly and hoping to have that new job and looking to have that new job, that fear, that sadness, that loneliness might be more easy to manage. But for someone that was forced to move, let's think of someone that lost their job and now needs to find a job in Switzerland, that fear will be completely different. That sadness of having had to leave the home country might be very different. And if they move alone again, they might end up feeling lonely more often than not.

So, very different ways. But I think, again there are situations that can improve this. And one of those is to have someone, it might be a therapist, it might be a counsellor, it might be a coach or a mentor, but someone that can accompany you throughout the process, Kathrin.

Kathrin: Mm, okay. And that's what you provide, right?

Esteban: This is one of the things, precisely, that I do as a coach. One of the main focus is to really acknowledge those emotions because, you know, the role of a coach is really to become a partner of the other person, for that person to achieve a goal. And that goal might be to adapt to the culture, to be successful in the new job, to be happy, whatever. But of course, if those emotions are not acknowledged and handled at the beginning of the process, then the process cannot move forward. Kathrin.

Kathrin: Yes, exactly. And then maybe the expat isn't successful in Switzerland and has to go back or they might just not have a good experience, which is a shame because as we said at the beginning, Switzerland has so much to offer.

Esteban: Exactly. And for example, we spoke about fear. One of the consequences of, about, fear is for example, negative self-talk, you know, that internal voice telling you, you will not succeed, you are not good enough. The root of that is fear. But if fear is not handled correctly, and if that negative self-talk is not handled correctly, then self-sabotage and all those consequences that that you and the audience know about will emerge. And in the end, you will not be able to achieve your goals.

Kathrin: Absolutely. Yeah. So, tell us a little more about what happens during coaching, then, how do you help people adapt and overcome these fears?

Esteban: Yes. Well, what I love about coaching, which is very different, for example, to therapy or consulting, or mentoring is that in coaching, the coach is simply, as I said, a partner or a facilitator for the person to grow, for the person to find their own answers. For the person to take their own decisions. And that's extremely empowering, Kathrin, because what I experienced while coaching is that, just by asking the right questions and by allowing the other person to come up with the answers, not me telling you, ah you know, you should do this, you should do that, you should... No. For that person to come up with their own answers, again, the entire feeling for them is different.

They feel self-assured. They feel confident. They realise they knew the answers from the beginning, but they were buried behind lots of fears, and you know, ideas that are preconceptions that were wrong. So, what the coach does during a session is precisely ask the right questions to get the person to not only set goals, but also find ways to move forward with those goals. And of course, with accountability, that person throughout the sessions starts to achieve certain milestones and in the end, achieve that final goal.

Kathrin: Yeah. Oh, I think that's a really important point about accountability, that sometimes what you really need is just someone to check in with you, right? And to make sure you're still on track because it's so easy, especially in a busy period, like, you know, moving to a different country, to just sort of bury the goals a bit.

Esteban: Yes. And you know, we often say things like, "What's your goal, Kathrin?" "Ah, my goal is to be successful". But then you have to narrow that down, no? What does success mean to you? What does that mean?

"Ah, well, I want to be the CEO of my company". Perfect. What are some of the milestones that you need to achieve to get to that CEO role? Ah, for example, the first thing would be this. Perfect. When are you going to do that? How? Who's going to support you? And let's revise in the next session what you did to achieve that.

Kathrin: Yeah, I can imagine how helpful that would be. So, let's think or imagine that I am a new client. And I've just contacted you and maybe we've set up a call. What's the process? Like, what can I expect?

Esteban: Well, the first thing is precisely that you contact me or a coach. And then typically what we have is a very short, what we call a discovery call, 20 minute call, or Zoom, just to get to know each other for you as a potential client to learn about me, for me to learn about you, to listen about what you're struggling with, what you want to achieve and for both of us to decide if we are a match.

That's again something beautiful about coaching, which is not me deciding if I work with you. It is a two-way street here. And once we say yes, I think we can work together, then we set up a plan.

And a plan can be different to different people. Typically, we might decide to have five, six sessions to achieve something. It can be even more, let's say,10, if the goal seems very daunting or challenging.

And then, Kathrin, the first session typically is a session where we will review your values, your beliefs, your main ways of thinking, because that again will tell me a lot about what you want to achieve in life.

You might say, yes, I want to be successful. Yes, but when we review these kind of things, we might find out that you want to be successful, for example, and this is often the case, to have time to spend with your family. And then we realise that the real value behind all of this is your family, not the success at work. And that changes again the way we will move on to achieve goals. And then we have a method, of course, and in the end, each session should end with things to do, and in the next session, what you did.

Kathrin: Something actionable. So you can, you actually have more of a clear path, right?

Esteban: Completely. Exactly.

Kathrin: Yeah, that sounds amazing. So how can people get in touch with you to maybe schedule that discovery call or ask you any additional questions?

Esteban: Of course. And thank you for the opportunity. So the, the, the first option, which is pretty easy: People can find out more about me on my website that's www.estebanpolidura.com. Very easy.

Or the other one might be through social media. I'm very active posting content, original content, thoughts, ideas, tips for expats on the different social media platforms. I think LinkedIn can be a great way for people to get in touch with me. They will not only get the content, but they might learn more about me. And if not, Instagram, TikTok and the other ones. But both ways will work.

Kathrin: Okay. And all of those links will be in the show notes. So you have the options there.

All right, that's it for today. So, thanks once again to our guest Esteban for joining us.

Esteban: My pleasure. Thank you very much, Kathrin. It has been great and I'm looking forward to having more of this conversation.

Kathrin: Me too.

And thanks to you also for listening. We'll include links in the show notes to our guest and to further materials about some of the topics that we've spoken about today. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review on your favourite podcast platform.

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